About two months ago, I attended a "Safe Space Workshop" for LGBTQ allies on my community college campus. I met a lot of interesting people there. One of them made me a little nervous at first, because of her waist-length hair and ultra-modest, ankle-length skirt. I thought for sure that she would be trouble. My suspicions seemed to be confirmed when she said that she was a Christian.
She mentioned at one point that her daughter was bi, and that she had told her daughter that the rules were the same for a girlfriend staying over, as for having a boyfriend stay over. I was a bit surprised by that, and surprised even more when she laughed, "Yeah, I get into a lot of arguments, because I'm a very outspoken feminist!"
At the end of the workshop, I raised my hand and mentioned that I was starting an "atheists and friends" club at the school, and that if anyone there was a student and comfortable with signing the petition form, I would appreciate it.
"I want to talk to you about that--I think I could help you!" she said eagerly. So I went over to her side of the room and talked with her. Apparently she worked at the college, and was eager to help the new and unofficial clubs.
"I have an atheist son who says he's a Satanist," she smiled, rolling her eyes. "I don't think he is, he just says that because I'm very vocal about my Christianity."
"Well, I heard that the guy who founded that whole movement, started it as kind of a joke," I nodded.
She seemed, strangely enough, like one of the nicest, most open-minded Christians I had ever met. So a few days later, I went to visit her at her office, as she had wanted me to.
She was wearing another ankle-length skirt when I went to her office to see her.
"Oh, I have a question for the Gay-Straight Alliance club, too," I mentioned after some pleasantries, "We want to do a series on gay Christianity," sadly not my idea,"because so many people think that it's either/or, and I was wondering if you knew anybody who might be interested in talking about it."
"Sure, I would love to talk about it," she answered, smiling, "if you don't mind straight-up answers from the Bible."
"Oh, okay," I nodded, trying to hide my slight apprehension, for anti-gay Christians often love to say that their views are the only biblical views out there.
"You know that, in ancient languages, they didn't have as many words as we have today?" she asked, perhaps sensing what I was thinking.
"Oh, yeah, that makes sense," I said, recalling how other modern languages often don't have as many words as English, since the British had colonies all around the world at one time and picked up words from all over.
"There's this verse in Matthew, Matthew 19:12, where Jesus talks about eunuchs, and a eunuch, in those days, it didn't just refer to someone who's been cut, it also referred to genderqueer people."
"It did?" I repeated, fascinated.
"Yes, so when He talks about eunuchs, He says that some are born eunuchs, others are made eunuchs, because kings would have eunuchs to guard their harems, things like that, and some choose to be eunuchs for God. And in verse six, He says, 'What God has joined together, let no man separate,' so He was talking about eunuch marriages too. And He also says, 'He who is able to accept this, let him accept it,' so He was saying that His message was for those who understood it."
"Really?! Wow, I had no idea!" I have always been fascinated by the "roots" of the bible, especially when it contradicts everything modern Christians hold as sacred, and this has not changed now that I'm an atheist.
"Yes, and He also says, 'Those who are able to hear this, will hear this.' So He's saying that some people will understand what He means, and others won't."
"Wow, that's amazing!" I'm sure that I gave her a little hope that I might not be an atheist forever, since I reacted this way, but I really have no problem with some people's conception of Jesus. I just don't think God is likely to exist, with what we know now, and what we're probably likely to discover in the future.
I had heard something like Jesus endorsing same-sex marriage in the gospels, but it had never all been explained to me so clearly before, I suppose.
"I like to argue about this with people online," she laughed.
"Well, yeah, me, too," I admitted.
"Just get another name, and it's fun," she said.
We talked about bake sales for the Gay-Straight Alliance club, and she talked about all of the elaborate cakes she used to make for her children's special occasions. I wished all Christians who baked had her heart.
She mentioned her atheist son again, at another point in the conversation. "He's always like, 'Bill Nye! Neil DeGrasse Tyson!', and I'm like, 'I like those guys too!" she explained.
"Yeah, Bill Nye's kind of cute," I smiled, a little self-consciously.
"They're both pretty good-looking," she agreed. "I just tell my son, there's just so many universes, and so many galaxies, that it's very likely that there's a transcendent being in at least one of them," she said.
"I guess so," I nodded, not wanting to get into a debate with someone I liked so much already, and who could help two clubs I was involved in. She also had a point, though I'm not sure there is a "transcendent being" intervening in this world.
The topic somehow got onto the afterlife. "I mean, I hope there's an afterlife, it's a little scary to think about not existing," I said, getting a little emotional.
"You won't know it," she shrugged.
"I guess not."
As I left, she shook my hand and regarded me with a motherly smile. She wasn't condescending, though, so I didn't think of it as offensive. Maybe I reminded her of her atheist son or her bi daughter.
I was still shaking my head in disbelief as I walked out of there. It was amazing to me, that someone could dress like Quiverfull and be like Freedhearts (a pro-gay Christian site, which she hadn't heard of, and which I had suggested to her).
Wow, I thought as I left, I didn't know I could be so judgmental.
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Lovely piece, as always!
ReplyDeleteMy gosh, I had to explain to a very prejudiced Christian a couple of weeks ago about the "eunuch" thing. They got very, very angry about the simple Biblical statement that some people are born eunuchs, claiming that I took it out of context. Ironic, because that's what they were doing constantly with the rest of the passage (claiming that statements about divorce somehow deny the existence of gay people), and "Some are born eunuchs" is not a statement that changes in any context.
They became even angrier when I explained that trans people would have been called eunuchs in ancient times, because they didn't have words for every variation of personhood. (We still don't, but we can express the ideas more clearly, at least.) We even have evidence of this in some cultures where a man who lived as a woman was *called a eunuch.* (Transmen were invisible as usual, of course. >.< )
What made them so angry they stopped responding? Explaining the "eunuch" thing by analogy by pointing out that "Testament"—as in Old Testament—very obviously doesn't mean the same thing that it did when that text was named such.
It's really nice to see a Christian making the same point.
Thank you, Azimuth! That makes me feel so good! Sometimes I don't know what other people would be interested in reading, especially when it comes to my personal experiences.
DeleteI love hearing "new" (to me) theories about the bible. They're even better sometimes than theories about movies and cartoons! I think that what people know as the bible today, and what the early church/Israelites had, are very different things--how could they not be, after so long?
Good for you, explaining that to them! Some people say that it's no use, but what else can you do? I personally don't feel like I can just let it go. Maybe later they or someone else will think about your words and at least understand that there are other valid interpretations. Go, Azimuth! :)
It is amazing to me that people take the bible "literally," but don't bother to learn about the culture of the time or the roots of the key words. That seems very shallow to me, and almost insulting to God or the bible, if God wrote it.
I'm also baffled when they shout that they're 100% certain of every little thing, and that they can't possibly have it wrong. And that you're 100% wrong if you come to a different conclusion. I didn't think that was reverence or humility, and I like to think that I allow for the possibility that I'm wrong.
Keep up the good work! I'm cautiously optimistic that if we just keep talking to people, we can slowly make the world a more tolerant place. :)
--AJ